29 replies to this topic

[FriskyFrog]

Santorum or Megadeath?

[SFA Frog]

I'm beginning to think I will have no one to vote for in November.  Of course, I'm also beginning to think that Texas will never get to have a primary.

[Duquesne Frog]

Wow I only got 3!  I guess that's what happens when I try very hard not to pay attention to either of them.

A lot of Black Sabbath lyrics could have come from a hellfire pulpit ...

[fnfreebird]

FriskyFrog, on 25 February 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

Santorum or Megadeath?

Leading your sheep to..

[FriskyFrog]

fnfreebird, on 25 February 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

Leading your sheep to..

Graze peacefully?

[NewfoundlandFrog]

Duquesne Frog, on 25 February 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

Wow I only got 3!  I guess that's what happens when I try very hard not to pay attention to either of them.

A lot of Black Sabbath lyrics could have come from a hellfire pulpit ...

finished in a tie.

Good lord. How is this happening? I mean seriously.

[NewfoundlandFrog]

NewfoundlandFrog, on 26 February 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

...Good lord...

Further to "Good Lord"...

I used to be a conservative, and I watch these debates and I’m  wondering. I don’t think I’ve changed. But it’s a little troubling  sometimes when people are appealing to people’s fears and emotion... Jeb Bush, Feb 2012

[jugbandfrog]

These nutbags are not conservatives, they are religious zealots hell bent on getting into office and wasting time and money defeating the evils they were told were evil by their evangelical/nutjob preachers.

[Duquesne Frog]

Unbelievable.  Gotta love the anti-intellectualism from a man who spent nearly a decade in higher learning.

[George F. Will]

Duquesne Frog, on 27 February 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Unbelievable.  Gotta love the anti-intellectualism from a man who spent nearly a decade in higher learning.

I actually think he has a point, however he did not communicate it well, which is a reason he will never be president.  College is not for everyone.  Look at how many business icons that have dropped out or never attended college.

[RSF]

George F. Will, on 27 February 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

I actually think he has a point, however he did not communicate it well, which is a reason he will never be president.  College is not for everyone.  Look at how many business icons that have dropped out or never attended college.

Just watched 'Pony Excess' this weekend on ESPN.  Can't help but think that if Bill Clements had finished at SMU maybe he wouldn't have thought continuing the payments after they went on probation was a good idea.  

[Duquesne Frog]

George F. Will, on 27 February 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

I actually think he has a point, however he did not communicate it well, which is a reason he will never be president.  College is not for everyone.  Look at how many business icons that have dropped out or never attended college.

Agree to a point, and I didn't hear the Obama statement that he was referencing there ... whether Obama really said he wanted every American to go to college, but Santorum's (hypocritical) anti-intellectualism is really breathtaking.

As to the business icons, that wasn't the ideal he was appealing to, which would be an appeal to the "American exceptionalism" that politicians and Republicans specifically like to appeal to.  I don't understand how we're supposed to be "exceptional" if getting a post-secondary education means you are a lazy, effete, librul ... i.e., something you shouldn't aspire to.  

And beside that, even if it was the ideal of the Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, college dropout icon example ... that's about like telling an inner city kid that his best shot at getting out of the slums is to be Lebron James.  There are a handful of those guys, who had both the ideas and the innate business savvy and the innate intelligence (it wasn't like those guys dropped out of King County Community College) to make a fortune without a formal college education ... and even those guys had to hire an army of guys with PhDs and MBAs to actually realize their fortune.

I guess my overall point is that I cannot believe this guy is still being considered a serious candidate.  Cannot believe it.  Absolute nutjob.

[RSF]

Duquesne Frog, on 27 February 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

And beside that, even if it was the ideal of the Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, college dropout icon example ...

In those cases, at least, they didn't drop out because they couldn't hack it, but because the opportunities that college normally affords somebody presented themselves a little early.  And you could argue neither one would be where they are today if they hadn't started down that path. Successful, perhaps, but not to the extraordinary levels they have achieved.  Especially Zuckerberg, who certainly wouldn't have created Facebook had he not lifted the idea from a couple fellow Harvard students.  

[NewfoundlandFrog]

Duquesne Frog, on 27 February 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

... that's about like telling an inner city kid that his best shot at getting out of the slums is to be Lebron James.  ...

As I'm sure you know, there are a lot of inner city "agents" who make a lot of money selling this notion to budding bb and fb athletes.

[FriskyFrog]

NewfoundlandFrog, on 27 February 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

As I'm sure you know, there are a lot of inner city "agents" who make a lot of money selling this notion to budding bb and fb athletes.

Wasnt that essentially the basis of the charity Sandusky was involved with?

[Duquesne Frog]

FriskyFrog, on 27 February 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

Wasnt that essentially the basis of the charity Sandusky was involved with?

I don't think they were selling the potential to be a star athlete to kids, but they were certainly selling access to star college athletes as part of the benefit to the kids ...

[jugbandfrog]

Duquesne Frog, on 27 February 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Agree to a point, and I didn't hear the Obama statement that he was referencing there ... whether Obama really said he wanted every American to go to college, but Santorum's (hypocritical) anti-intellectualism is really breathtaking.

As to the business icons, that wasn't the ideal he was appealing to, which would be an appeal to the "American exceptionalism" that politicians and Republicans specifically like to appeal to.  I don't understand how we're supposed to be "exceptional" if getting a post-secondary education means you are a lazy, effete, librul ... i.e., something you shouldn't aspire to.  

And beside that, even if it was the ideal of the Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, college dropout icon example ... that's about like telling an inner city kid that his best shot at getting out of the slums is to be Lebron James.  There are a handful of those guys, who had both the ideas and the innate business savvy and the innate intelligence (it wasn't like those guys dropped out of King County Community College) to make a fortune without a formal college education ... and even those guys had to hire an army of guys with PhDs and MBAs to actually realize their fortune.

I guess my overall point is that I cannot believe this guy is still being considered a serious candidate.  Cannot believe it.  Absolute nutjob.

People rip public schools for having a "cartel" like hold on educating students and the money that comes with it, but almost anyone who wants a decent job needs some kind of college.  Businesses do not apprentice like they used to, and trade jobs like Electrician, Plumber, Mechanic, etc...require at least two years at Technical college, but the BS in this system is they make them take "college-level" classes in order to get training they need to get a job.  It is total crap.  Why do they do this?  $$$ Federal $$$ in terms of aid.  A HS education should be enough to allow someone to be a functioning member of society, and anything beyond that allows them to specialize in a certain field.  What the hell is the point of making someone who wants to be a plumber take college literature?!?

[Duquesne Frog]

jugbandxmas, on 27 February 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

What the hell is the point of making someone who wants to be a plumber take college literature?!?

This is the paradox of education, isn't it?  Should the purpose of education simply be to train for a vocation (the more practical purpose) or should it be to provide knowledge to create an informed citizenry?  I'd argue both.  So I've got no problem with a plumber taking literature classes.

Some systems make kids choose whether they're going the vocational school vs. university route even earlier than we do.  I think a society is best served to allow kids the most time possible and give them the most information possible before making that decision.  At least ideally.

[NewfoundlandFrog]

Duquesne Frog, on 27 February 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

This is the paradox of education, isn't it?  Should the purpose of education simply be to train for a vocation (the more practical purpose) or should it be to provide knowledge to create an informed citizenry?  I'd argue both.  So I've got no problem with a plumber taking literature classes.

Some systems make kids choose whether they're going the vocational school vs. university route even earlier than we do.  I think a society is best served to allow kids the most time possible and give them the most information possible before making that decision.  At least ideally.

Why would those in power want an "informed citizenry"? Those who believe in the Enlightenment, like those who staged the Revolution, would. But entrenched interests? I think not.

[jugbandfrog]

Duquesne Frog, on 27 February 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

This is the paradox of education, isn't it?  Should the purpose of education simply be to train for a vocation (the more practical purpose) or should it be to provide knowledge to create an informed citizenry?  I'd argue both.  So I've got no problem with a plumber taking literature classes.

Some systems make kids choose whether they're going the vocational school vs. university route even earlier than we do.  I think a society is best served to allow kids the most time possible and give them the most information possible before making that decision.  At least ideally.

I think we give kids enough time to choose, but I also feel we are not educating them consistently across the country.  A High School education is not the same across the states, or even within states and communities.  While there are plenty of reasons which have nothing to do with the public schools themselves for the lack of consistency.

A student who chooses a vocational college should only have to worry about the vocation they are studying and not having to take (and waste time and $$) on stuff their HS should have covered.