187 replies to this topic

[George F. Will]

FriskyFrog, on 24 February 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

I am 100% against the government forcing women to have abortions, too.

Would you be against the government focing doctors to use standard medical practice?

Full disclosure:  I think am comming down on the side that I trust doctors more than government to make appropriate descisions when it comes down to this procedure, however that is not to say that I want to get in the way of a particular jurisdiction from passing whatever laws that they believe is right for their community.

[Duquesne Frog]

George F. Will, on 24 February 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

If a vaginal ultrasound is considered rape, what about the instruments used to perform an abortion?

Depends on whether the woman consents, no?

[FriskyFrog]

Duquesne Frog, on 24 February 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

But I envision a policy where I will try with all vigor to make the potential of pregnancy scarier than Scylla and Charybdis combined, but the kids will know where dad's "secret" stash of condoms are.

Hopefully not the ones left over from your wild days.  Those things have expiration dates, you know.

[George F. Will]

Duquesne Frog, on 24 February 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Depends on whether the woman consents, no?

Is that written or oral consent?

[The Uniballer]

George F. Will, on 24 February 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

I would think that patients have little choice in the matter.  A doctor is going to perform the steps necessary to ensure that the procedure is safe and effective. Correct me if I am wrong but depending on the gestational age of the pregnancy depends on the abortion procedure. Certainly the violence involved in making an assessment pursuant to standard medical practice is less violent than the abortion proceedure.

The argument is that vaginal ultrasounds are not always  a medically necessary procedure and that unless they are, women shouldn't be forced to have them.  It'd be like the DMV requiring a prostate exam before granting you a drivers license.

[George F. Will]

The Uniballer, on 24 February 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

The argument is that vaginal ultrasounds are not always  a medically necessary procedure and that unless they are, women shouldn't be forced to have them.  It'd be like the DMV requiring a prostate exam before granting you a drivers license.

No that is required before I do my taxes...

[The Uniballer]

And if it is a medically necessary procedure, shouldn't that be determined by a health board of some sort and not a bunch of legislators?

[George F. Will]

The Uniballer, on 24 February 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

And if it is a medically necessary procedure, shouldn't that be determined by a health board of some sort and not a bunch of legislators?

Good point. Please see my disclosure above.

[RSF]

The Uniballer, on 24 February 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

The argument is that vaginal ultrasounds are not always  a medically necessary procedure and that unless they are, women shouldn't be forced to have them.  It'd be like the DMV requiring a prostate exam before granting you a drivers license.

That would certainly be a pain in the arse.....







I was going to go with a female driver joke, but apparently the medical community decided 10 years ago that women have a prostate, too.

[FriskyFrog]

George F. Will, on 24 February 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Would you be against the government focing doctors to use standard medical practice?

Since I had two kids without ever having a transvaginal ultrasound I strongly disagree that this constitutes standard practice.  Putting the government between a patient and doctor making decisions is a dangerous business.  I really don't get you conservatives calling for all this government regulation.  The government that can shove a stick up my wahoo can also mandate abortion as a means of societal control.  I work hard to teach my children that their bodies are their own sacred territory that no one else has a right to invade or disrespect.

[George F. Will]

FriskyFrog, on 24 February 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Since I had two kids without ever having a transvaginal ultrasound I strongly disagree that this constitutes standard practice.  Putting the government between a patient and doctor making decisions is a dangerous business.  I really don't get you conservatives calling for all this government regulation.  The government that can shove a stick up my wahoo can also mandate abortion as a means of societal control.  I work hard to teach my children that their bodies are their own sacred territory that no one else has a right to invade or disrespect.

It is not standard practice for carrying a baby to term, but is it standard practice before peforming an early term abortion procedure?  I kind of think that if you want an abortion you kind of have to do whatever the doctor beleives is the best course in order to provide a safe and successful procedure. If a surgical abortion is the correct course, you kind of have no choice in the matter unless you want to comprimise your safety, although I am not sure a doctor would assist in that matter.

[pcf]

Duquesne Frog, on 24 February 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

  But I envision a policy where I will try with all vigor to make the potential of pregnancy scarier than Scylla and Charybdis combined, but the kids will know where dad's "secret" stash of condoms are.

Good idea. I think I'll get some custom made condoms with my face on the package. Maybe a full body shot of me wearing my full tucked jersey.

I honestly think I could turn our birth rate into Japan's if the nation  had more pcf linkage with sex.

[Duquesne Frog]

pcf, on 24 February 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Good idea. I think I'll get some custom made condoms with my face on the package. Maybe a full body shot of me wearing my full tucked jersey.

You nearly made me spit my beverage with that one ...

[George F. Will]

pcf, on 24 February 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

Good idea. I think I'll get some custom made condoms with my face on the package. Maybe a full body shot of me wearing my full tucked jersey.

I honestly think I could turn our birth rate into Japan's if the nation  had more pcf linkage with sex.

Your best post ever.

[FriskyFrog]

George F. Will, on 24 February 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

It is not standard practice for carrying a baby to term, but is it standard practice before peforming an early term abortion procedure?

I have no problem with a doctor saying "I won't perform an abortion without this first" if said doctor has a MEDICAL reason for doing so.  I have infinite problems with politicians making such a declaration for the doctors.  The medical community has their own procedures for determining standard medical practices and holding doctors to these ever-evolving standards.

[George F. Will]

FriskyFrog, on 24 February 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

I have no problem with a doctor saying "I won't perform an abortion without this first" if said doctor has a MEDICAL reason for doing so.  I have infinite problems with politicians making such a declaration for the doctors.  The medical community has their own procedures for determining standard medical practices and holding doctors to these ever-evolving standards.

Does not the legislation only provide that the doctor document whatever standard medical practice that was followed?

Bill

[Duquesne Frog]

George F. Will, on 24 February 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

It is not standard practice for carrying a baby to term, but is it standard practice before peforming an early term abortion procedure?  I kind of think that if you want an abortion you kind of have to do whatever the doctor beleives is the best course in order to provide a safe and successful procedure. If a surgical abortion is the correct course, you kind of have no choice in the matter unless you want to comprimise your safety, although I am not sure a doctor would assist in that matter.

I don't think I'm revealing too much to confess that I have not had an abortion.  So I don't know whether it is SOP or not. If it is, I think you're right. The implication I've heard, however, is that legislators are forcing the ultrasound as an additional unnecessary step to try and convince women not to have abortions.  If that implication is wrong and the "transvag," as I believe someone called it, is considered a necessary step to complete the procedure, then it's no more rape than any other invasive procedure.  By consenting to the abortion, you'd be consenting to whatever medically necessary procedures are involved.

[Duquesne Frog]

Transvag would be a fantastic name for a punk band ...

[George F. Will]

Duquesne Frog, on 24 February 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Transvag would be a fantastic name for a punk band ...

Call me Rock God...

[RSF]

George F. Will, on 24 February 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Call me Rock God...