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Serious post........serious opinions sought..........


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#21 Whisky Dude

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    Kenneth Davis

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:43 PM

I think that something like this is fine as long as instructional time is not missed. In my school 4th and 5th grade students are one a six day rotation for specials programs. They go to these special classes while their homeroom teacher is on their conference/planning period. Currently the students rotate between music, art, dance, PE (x2) and desktop publishing. If during this time the school decided to pull groups of students to go and allow the school counselors to actually do their job (instead of making them responsible for mostly testing and scheduling as ours our) I think it would be pretty cool. I think if done properly that it could actually benefit some of the students.

I'm not sure how it would work once it got to sixth grade at a campus like mine. We have a 7 period day where all students must take ELA, science, SS, math (double block), PE/Pre-athetics and a non-credit elective (dance, band, choir, desktop publishing). In that situation I would pull the kids out of their elective periods every so often to do it.

I do not like a few things about the way that what you said happened. If done, it should not cut into core curriculum instruction time. It should be in a specially paired groupings of students as a type of advisory class or special pullout program. So I do like the idea but not necessarily the implementation.

What was learned from the experience was probably invaluable to the school employees and maybe even the other students. It is almost impossible to teach someone without knowing where they are coming from and without trying to build a bond of empathy and compassion with them.


Yes...........it was done IN PLACE OF their normal science class. It was also the entire class. The kids HAVE TO have so many hours a month dedicated to " guidance".


I just think something like that should be done more in a one on one setting myself, instead of class wide. I thought TCUSA made some excellent points myself.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Thomas Jefferson





#22 Whisky Dude

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    Kenneth Davis

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:55 PM

I know one thing for sure. MOST of the parents in this town are NOT very happy with that particular middle school AT ALL. And for other reasons besides this story Ive told you about. For years now we have heard horror stories about that school, I never really believed them to be honest.

Tell ya what...........I DO NOW!!


The horror stories are about how the kids are disciplined there. They are on this crazy point system. But the thing is.........the kids are racking up points at breakneck speeds. I mean........for every little NOTHING thing. So many points equals an after school detention.

But heres the rub..........half the dang kids in class are IN DETENTION! :ohmy:

Most of it over the most picky little stuff you ever heard of. Other thing is..........MOST of these kids NEVER had any trouble in school, like EVER............UNTIL they got there that is.


Its almost like they are setting these kids up for failure.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Thomas Jefferson

#23 SFA Frog

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    Abe Martin

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:07 PM

Yes...........it was done IN PLACE OF their normal science class. It was also the entire class. The kids HAVE TO have so many hours a month dedicated to " guidance".


I just think something like that should be done more in a one on one setting myself, instead of class wide. I thought TCUSA made some excellent points myself.


I know that with DARE we place deputy in the social studies classrooms for one day every so many weeks. We use one day a month in the science classrooms to complete a grade wide reading inventory assessment. I don't like it but those are the only classes taught only by two teachers and thus serving the entire grade level in two days. Using one instructional day per teacher in those two subject areas is very effective in minimizing the time out of the instructional schedule. So it may have been done in that class because of that reason.

Also, when I worked at the high school we had an advisory/mentoring program they tried to implement. They did it as part of the school day and made a special 30 minute time addition to the second period class. It was implemented horribly so it wasn't successful. Many teachers also decided that it was 30 minutes of extra instructional time for their second period class which didn't work out well either. Then they decided to make it only on certain times and assign every staff member a set of mentees to meet at least once a six weeks. However, in my case I was assigned 11 students in grades that I didn't work with. I only saw them for 30 minutes every 3-6 weeks and that doesn't lend itself to actually developing any kind of mentor/mentee relationship.

I think the time for this, if added, should probably still be in groups but smaller groups than full classes. No more than 10 students should meet at a time. It should be a pullout program for non-required core classes.

In regard to bullying, I think it might actually help with it but only if done right. Bullies are bullies for a reason. Working with students to help them understand their own issues as well as the issues of their classmates should help with the bullying behavior rather than make it worse. I also do not agree with the idea that personal issues shouldn't be talked about. Personal issues should be talked about. You never know who else is having the same issues as you unless you talk about it. Also, if your peer has a way to cope with a personal issue that could be successful for you as well but you never talked about it then you sit in misery alone. Peer mediation is also an excellent leadership model that could plug into this easily to these groups. These are actually tools that would be wonderful for students to learn so that as they grow up they know how to deal with their own issues and issues within group settings and mediate their own issues.

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"Duty then is the most sublime word in the English language. You should do your duty in all things. You can never do more, you should never wish to do less." - Robert E. Lee


#24 Whisky Dude

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    Kenneth Davis

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:13 PM

I dunno..........just seemed like everything was so much easier when I was a kid. We had bullies too back then, but not for long........:biggrin: Some big bully that was alot bigger and stronger than the rest eventually got dealt with. Mighta took four of us on just him,.........but after giving him a good old beat down he wasnt gonna bully nobody anymore after that! Might not be the ideal way of of handling it...............but pretty effective.


Coarse.........that was then.....this is now. Back then after a fight .....that was the end of it. You shake hands and move forward.

Nowadays kids that are pretty young are liable to come back with a gun.

Sad state of affairs.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Thomas Jefferson

#25 jugbandfrog

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:21 PM

Look, the education system (public and private) is much more about social engineering than ABCs and 123s; just another example...

It has always been that way. It is a lot less so nowadays though. The early days of education in America were all about protecting the way of life of the early settlers. Academics were rife with social engineering, and this changed when the National Defense Education Act was passed in 1958.

However, the lack of parental involvement and lack of parent's actually teaching their kids how to properly interact with other members of society waned over the years. As a former classroom teacher, I would prefer not to have to spend any time teaching a kid how to interact with others so as they do not disrupt the classroom, but that proved to be the case far too often.

Kids should go to school with these basic sets of knowledge that should be taught at home so a teacher can focus on academics. Go to a classroom in modern america and you will see issues that distract a teacher from what they are supposed to be doing. Although, they can't ignore these issues because a teacher needs a class that is attentive and ready to learn .

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#26 Whisky Dude

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:24 PM

.

However, the lack of parental involvement and lack of parent's actually teaching their kids how to properly interact with other members of society waned over the years. As a former classroom teacher, I would prefer not to have to spend any time teaching a kid how to interact with others so as they do not disrupt the classroom, but that proved to be the case far too often.

Kids should go to school with these basic sets of knowledge that should be taught at home so a teacher can focus on academics. Go to a classroom in modern america and you will see issues that distract a teacher from what they are supposed to be doing. Although, they can't ignore these issues because a teacher needs a class that is attentive and ready to learn .




Agree 100% Way too many uninvolved parents nowadays.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Thomas Jefferson

#27 SFA Frog

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    Abe Martin

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:31 PM

I know one thing for sure. MOST of the parents in this town are NOT very happy with that particular middle school AT ALL. And for other reasons besides this story Ive told you about. For years now we have heard horror stories about that school, I never really believed them to be honest.

Tell ya what...........I DO NOW!!


The horror stories are about how the kids are disciplined there. They are on this crazy point system. But the thing is.........the kids are racking up points at breakneck speeds. I mean........for every little NOTHING thing. So many points equals an after school detention.

But heres the rub..........half the dang kids in class are IN DETENTION! :ohmy:

Most of it over the most picky little stuff you ever heard of. Other thing is..........MOST of these kids NEVER had any trouble in school, like EVER............UNTIL they got there that is.


Its almost like they are setting these kids up for failure.


I don't like discipline points. We do daily scaled in a most of our classes but they reset at the end of the day. Many rooms have a clip system that allow students to see where they are for that day. It is also color coded in many rooms. I am required to have this posted in my room.


Campus Rules and Expectations
· Listen to others
· Follow directions on first request
· Respect self, others, and property
· Make safe choices
· Always do your best


Consequences
1. Warning
2. Redirect to alternate activity
3. Loss of class privilege and/or recess
4. Teacher-initiated consequences
5. Parent/guardian contact

Only if you have gone through these consequences are you allowed to refer a student to the office. The first time you also aren't going to have your student will most likely visit the counselor instead of an administrator. The idea is that you are trying to correct the cause of the behavior than punishing the student for exhibiting it.



I'm horrible at it but we are also told that need to be positive in almost everything. We also have this posted in our rooms:

Before you say something ask yourself these questions:

Is it:

Thoughtful,
Honest,
Intelligent,
Necessary,
Kind?

If the answer is no to any of these then it doesn't need to be said.

Also, right now we are promoting kindness by painting the hallways pink. If you are caught showing kindness to others then a teacher will fill out a "pink slip". The slip will be read over the announcements and placed on the wall. "If we cover the walls up to the 5th grade hallway with the PINK slips, the administrative team will paint their fingernails pink for a week. If we cover the walls up to the cafeteria (by the dance room) PINK, the administrative team will paint their toe nails pink for a week. If we cover the cafeteria walls … the administrative team will color their hair PINK!! That's right, they will have PINK hair, toes and fingernails for a whole week!


I also spent all day decorating the hallways to be a walk of fame. I hate standardized testing though.


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For each benchmark mastered, you earn a star on the walk-of-fame.


Shoot for the STAAR! Take Your Best Shot!



1. 1. Walk of Fame (Stars hung from the ceiling for each student passing each benchmark)

2. 2. Use window chalk on the front windows, front doors, and windows leading out to the courtyards between wings

3. 3. Countdown to STAAR

4. 4. Provide "buddy bands" for each student to EARN one. The bracelets will be colored and will say "Take your best shot!" Bracelets will be given to those students who pass one or more of their second benchmarks. Those students who do not earn a bracelet in this way will be able to earn it by meeting your expectations for them in giving their best effort to prepare for the STAAR tests.

5. 5. Provide special pencils for test days

6. 6. Hallway contracts. We will post these on the wing entrances so that the students can give them a little tap each time they pass by.

7. 7. Wish Upon a STAAR Goal Charts for classrooms

8. 8. STAAR Spirit Week (April 16th – 20th) – Special dress for each day

9. 9. STAAR Pep Rally (Ms. Dixon is leading the charge, so let her know if you want to help!)




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"Duty then is the most sublime word in the English language. You should do your duty in all things. You can never do more, you should never wish to do less." - Robert E. Lee


#28 Whisky Dude

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    Kenneth Davis

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:02 PM

Excellent job on the decorations SFA. Those kids are lucky to have you.
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Thomas Jefferson

#29 SFA Frog

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    Abe Martin

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 08:57 PM

Excellent job on the decorations SFA. Those kids are lucky to have you.


I just stood on the ladder and put up the stars in the ceiling. We had a team of specials teachers and paraprofessionals that did the rest. I didn't take pictures of the grade level contracts, countdown calendars or individual goal templates. Our principal is all about positive reinforcement to start but is also pretty strict. He doesn't paddle but he did allegedly help rupture a student's tricep by giving the student a choice of calling his mother and going to ISS or doing 200 push ups. The student chose the 200 push ups and hurt himself.

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"Duty then is the most sublime word in the English language. You should do your duty in all things. You can never do more, you should never wish to do less." - Robert E. Lee



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