51 replies to this topic

[The Uniballer]

pcf, on 02 May 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

America scares the hell out of me. We'll ruin it in trying to acquire it.

This next generation that is coming up is going to fix things.  I am absolutely convinced of it.

[NewfoundlandFrog]

HFrog71, on 02 May 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

From my past interactions with that particular three-letter federal agency, I would say Scenario 1.

The counterterrorist specialists have so much on their plate just following tips/leads that they don't have the time or resources to set up elaborate trotlines just to see if anyone bites.

My guess as well. However my prison experience tells me that those who got stung will say, and in many cases actually feel, they were led on. This is not to say that I accept their self delusions in most cases.

[pcf]

The Uniballer, on 02 May 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

This next generation that is coming up is going to fix things.  I am absolutely convinced of it.

Whoa. I didn't know you were into drugs.

I don't think we can even agree on what fixing things means. Is it about having a nice tidy budget? A better society with less disparity and higher use of human capital? Cleansing the society of "defectives"?

Our problem is societal and I've seen not one inkling that we won't be squabbling like 2 year olds shouting "MINE!" as we bash each others' heads in.  Productivity is rising and creating a disparity in income and individual usefulness. When one kid gets a fancy new toy and the other has nothing, what happens?

The problem isn't in the budget or how we fund things governmentally. I think the problem is a sort of cancer. As society recedes and individuals are left on their own, we create free radicals that will bond in dangerous ways to overcome their own instability. As in biology, these free radicals are a threat to the organism we call society.

We keep seeking solution that increase instability. Paul Ryan's plan doesn't give stability, it increases instability. This will be a destructive force in society.

So how do we treat this cancer? Do we change the environmental factors? Cut out the bad and continue the same "lifestyle"? Bombard ourselves with the societal equivalent of chemo?

I see us getting sicker based on the solutions offered.

[The Uniballer]

At the bottom of this article is the  affidavit that details the investigation.  http://www.cleveland...es_nationa.html

[pcf]

The Uniballer, on 02 May 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

At the bottom of this article is the  affidavit that details the investigation.  http://www.cleveland...es_nationa.html

Wright had also talked about "getting a car that they can drive into the Federal Reserve Bank" in Cleveland to blow it up, according to an affidavit from FBI Special Agent Ryan Taylor.

(See the affidavit in the DocumentCloud reader below.)

Ron Paul now thinks they weren't completely crazy.

[Duquesne Frog]

HFrog71, on 02 May 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

I was going to mention the burning river, but figured that cultural reference would be lost with this crowd...

Trust me, any resident of Pittsburgh knows of the burning of the Cuyahoga, no matter the age.  A condition of residency here is learning all of the ways Cleveland sucks ...

[The Uniballer]

pcf, on 02 May 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

Whoa. I didn't know you were into drugs.

I don't think we can even agree on what fixing things means. Is it about having a nice tidy budget? A better society with less disparity and higher use of human capital? Cleansing the society of "defectives"?

Our problem is societal and I've seen not one inkling that we won't be squabbling like 2 year olds shouting "MINE!" as we bash each others' heads in.  Productivity is rising and creating a disparity in income and individual usefulness. When one kid gets a fancy new toy and the other has nothing, what happens?

The problem isn't in the budget or how we fund things governmentally. I think the problem is a sort of cancer. As society recedes and individuals are left on their own, we create free radicals that will bond in dangerous ways to overcome their own instability. As in biology, these free radicals are a threat to the organism we call society.

We keep seeking solution that increase instability. Paul Ryan's plan doesn't give stability, it increases instability. This will be a destructive force in society.

So how do we treat this cancer? Do we change the environmental factors? Cut out the bad and continue the same "lifestyle"? Bombard ourselves with the societal equivalent of chemo?

I see us getting sicker based on the solutions offered.

We may very well get sicker, but I still think we'll get better.  I think the problem is that for a couple of generations (mine included) we didn't really know hardship.  No threat of drafts, no real talk of war.  Except for a blip here or there, economy was pretty good.  We started making good progress on some diseases.  We got lazy and started with the participation trophies, and throwing a fit every time our kids were cut from a team, or punished.  It was just a really easy life.  And now we're facing some difficulties and we don't know what the heck to do because we've never faced difficulties before.  And we're failing miserably at correcting problems that aren't anywhere close to the worst problems this country has faced.  Our easy life left us poorly prepared to overcome obstacles.

This next group coming up is different.  They've known war and economic hardhsip and divorce.  They're made aware of it at an early age and think about it and talk about it.  There's starting to (slowly) be a walking back of participation trophy parenting.  It's been a couple of years, but when I would participate in Interview Day for the Neeley School, you could tell that these kids are different and better equipped for difficulty than  my peers and I were.

<insert obligatory "I believe the children are our future" joke here>

[Duquesne Frog]

The Uniballer, on 02 May 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

<insert obligatory "I believe the children are our future" joke here>

Too soon, baller.  Too soon ...

[George F. Will]

A group of anarchists...

I Love Irony^TM

[pcf]

The Uniballer, on 02 May 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

We may very well get sicker, but I still think we'll get better.  I think the problem is that for a couple of generations (mine included) we didn't really know hardship.  No threat of drafts, no real talk of war.  Except for a blip here or there, economy was pretty good.  We started making good progress on some diseases.  We got lazy and started with the participation trophies, and throwing a fit every time our kids were cut from a team, or punished.  It was just a really easy life.  And now we're facing some difficulties and we don't know what the heck to do because we've never faced difficulties before.  And we're failing miserably at correcting problems that aren't anywhere close to the worst problems this country has faced.  Our easy life left us poorly prepared to overcome obstacles.

This next group coming up is different.  They've known war and economic hardhsip and divorce.  They're made aware of it at an early age and think about it and talk about it.  There's starting to (slowly) be a walking back of participation trophy parenting.  It's been a couple of years, but when I would participate in Interview Day for the Neeley School, you could tell that these kids are different and better equipped for difficulty than  my peers and I were.

<insert obligatory "I believe the children are our future" joke here>

That doesn't tell me what they would do or anything about their humanity. Do they rebel against the elimination of people that is war and divorce, or do they embrace it as the new reality?

If the message is that bad stuff happens and losers get dumped on, they have a problem like Achilles. The more losers you create in society, the higher the quality of the loser will be. The loser will then be that much dangerous an enemy.

Consumerism is the battlefield. We support a lot of crap in society because it creates jobs. Once it creates fewer jobs, the whole concept of consumerism, and the wealth it creates for an increasingly smaller number of people, is at risk.

[The Uniballer]

<p>

pcf, on 02 May 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

That doesn't tell me what they would do or anything about their humanity. Do they rebel against the elimination of people that is war and divorce, or do they embrace it as the new reality?

If the message is that bad stuff happens and losers get dumped on, they have a problem like Achilles. The more losers you create in society, the higher the quality of the loser will be. The loser will then be that much dangerous an enemy.

Consumerism is the battlefield. We support a lot of crap in society because it creates jobs. Once it creates fewer jobs, the whole concept of consumerism, and the wealth it creates for an increasingly smaller number of people, is at risk.

I don't think they'll embrace it as the new reality.  I think they know that our current reality is screwed up and are going to fix it. http://sojo.net/blog...d-2012-election Young evangelicals are different from their parents and any generation that has preceded them. Their priorities are changing, their world view is shifting and their political engagement is becoming increasingly nuanced – going well beyond the narrow interests of the Religious Right that until now have been associated with evangelicalism in the United States.Young evangelicals are disenchanted by the lack of tolerance and the narrow view of faith that they perceive in their parents’ generation.  They are also jaded by the partisan politics they see in Washington, D.C., and the inability for cooperation.Yes, the ‘moral’ issues (homosexuality and same-sex marriage, and abortion) are still important, and ones that are likely to draw young evangelicals to activism, but they by no means hold exclusive status.Today, only around one in five young adults view these issues as ‘critical,’ despite holding strong viewpoints on them. Indeed, in the PRRI survey, the moral issues gained the lowest support for being ‘critical’ issues amongst college-age millennials; almost eight in 10 say jobs and unemployment are critical, 40 percent recognize income inequality as a critical issue, and similar numbers have critical concern for the environment and immigration.

[The Uniballer]

http://www.pewforum....illennials.aspx
Religion among the Millenials

[pcf]

The Uniballer, on 02 May 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Indeed, in the PRRI survey, the moral issues gained the lowest support for being 'critical' issues amongst college-age millennials; almost eight in 10 say jobs and unemployment are critical, 40 percent recognize income inequality as a critical issue, and similar numbers have critical concern for the environment and immigration.

I bet they get punked by the people offering trade-offs.

We're still negotiating with the terms offered. I use health care as an example. We never seriously considered what was the optimum choice.

The Founders risked it for the optimum choice. I don't see us doing it again.

[The Uniballer]

<p>

pcf, on 02 May 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

We never seriously considered what was the optimum choice.

"We" didn't, but "they" will.  "They" have the courage and experience to tackle difficlut situations.  "We" don't have either.

[pcf]

The Uniballer, on 02 May 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

<p>"We" didn't, but "they" will.  "They" have the courage and experience to tackle difficlut situations.  "We" don't have either.

Once again, to what standard?

[RSF]

If anarchists blew up a bridge anyplace else, would it make a difference?

[The Uniballer]

<p>

pcf, on 02 May 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Once again, to what standard?

Better than the current standard

[pcf]

The Uniballer, on 02 May 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

<p>Better than the current standard

It can always get worse.

[The Uniballer]

<p>

pcf, on 02 May 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

It can always get worse.

Your post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.  We hit hard times and go into Debbie Downer mode and convince ourselves that things today are the worst they've ever been and that there's no way we'll ever recover.  We've faced more difficult times in the past and made our way out of it and flourished.

[Poison Arrow Frog]

NewfoundlandFrog, on 02 May 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

My guess as well. However my prison experience tells me that those who got stung will say, and in many cases actually feel, they were led on. This is not to say that I accept their self delusions in most cases.

I think everyone who is in prison works in that prison..... so what were you in for?